CUV discussion

Originally posted by Second Chance


Can CUVs repair multiple ships at once? I think that's a necessity. And if CUVs become more important, they become bigger targets (destroying your foes ability to repair could cripple their forces). Protection of CUVs will become part of the strategy.

Currently the CUV can repair and re-arm 3 ships before it must refurbish it's own supplies at a station or base. The repair (and re-armement) is only up to 60 % of the other ships capacity. We can change this, for example; allow the CUV to only re-arm others 3 times but repair 5 times?
A dynamic repair rate is possible too and easy enough if we keep the repair rate linear, for example:

1st time 50%
2nd time 45%
3rd time 35%
4th time 30%
5th time 25%
Thereafter 0% until the CUV refurbishes


Another reason CUVs are very important is because they can also strategically deploy sentry turrets which are miniature, AM energy powered, gunstars.
When destroyed, the sentries explode with a small antimatter explosion (blast radius 1,5 km). You have to be carefull you don't put them too near your base or whatever you are protecting.

A CUV can deploy a maximum of 3 sentries at any given time. If one is destroyed he can replace it any time, i.e without having to go back to base for a new one. (thats a bit illogical in comparison to the re-arm /repair capability and it could be changed, but it would be rather complicated to do)

2 CUVs cannot repair or rearm each other.

I'm thinking of a function to request a CUV repair bot, that can be called per keybind, but only if there is just one real player (or maybe 2?) on the map per team. The bot CUV would drop in out of hyperspace around 20 km from your current location and have orders to dock with you. (A CUV repair bot will not be able to deploy sentry turrets)

This would be easy to do. What do you think? Should we add this function now or save it for real coop mission games later?




Iwar2 Multiplayer Fan Site

I think that's a great feature, add it now. Buuuut. . .

How about we set a minimum number of CUVs based on the number of players instead? Those CUVs without a player are bots. It would make a little more sense than a CUV coming in out of nowhere. The CUVs could loiter around the battlefield doing their thing, and simply respawn if destroyed (like other ships).

The repair (and re-armement) is only up to 60 % of the other ships capacity.

Why not let them do it completely, and take the required amount of time. I suspect the above figures we for when CUVs were bots only. With players piloting them, they need to be able to do a complete job. Let the rearming take a while (getting those missiles loaded is a tought job ). Then give the player the option to stay docked as long or as little as he wants. Both have consequences. If he stays too long, his team is weakened (and he's a sitting duck). If he doesn't stay long enough, he won't survive the battle.

Which brings me to another issue: Why would a player repair at all when he can just die and respawn fully repaired and fully loaded? I think death must have serious consequences. Like; for as many points as the other team gets for killing you, that many points gets decremented from your team. Or, give the players a max number of lives before he's removed from the battle. What do you think?

But I definitely like the idea of the CUVs needing to return to base to resupply. It adds a competitive edge to being a CUV pilot (racing to get resupplied and back to the battle before the other CUV pilots, increasing your CUV score).

The dynamic repair rate doesn't make any sense to me. Because you wouldn't have x amount of supplies alotted to each craft, you would just use everything you had until you ran out. First come, first served. What you could do is create a "Supplies" property that would represent the total volume of supplies carried by the CUV (and visible to the CUV pilot). Then, for every x number of hit points repaired, a percentage of the total supplies would be used up. And a single complete rearming could also use up x percent of the supplies. You could even base the rearming percentage on the type of ship if you wanted to. Then the CUV pilot would have to watch his supply volume and decide when it was time to resupply himself. Again, strategy. Like the fighter pilot, he's going to have to make the tough decision of when to get out.

I would think the player would have to target the CUV to dock with it (I hope). So, flux can do a quick check of the CUVs supply state, and if it doesn't have enough supplies to fix up the player, it would give an error beep and not allow him to dock. So he can go to another CUV and doesn't waste time.

Well, what do you think?

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Why would a player repair at all when he can just die and respawn fully repaired and fully loaded? I think death must have serious consequences. Like; for as many points as the other team gets for killing you, that many points gets decremented from your team. Or, give the players a max number of lives before he's removed from the battle. What do you think?

This is one of the weak points in the game. The players ship is recreated and therefore the weapons are full again. We can't do much about it.
a) There is no way to find out the status of ammo when the player dies that I know of
b) Even if we knew how much he had when he died, there is no way to reduce the ammo after the new ship is created.

There is no workaround I can think of. [V]

Hmmm, a max number of lives; thats kinda "un-fun" imo, cause if you can't rejoin, you just sit around and wait for the game to be over (you become a social outcast for a while). Thats probably demotivational for most newbies.

Decrementing points for deaths; It could make battles practically endless. And, if you get killed too much you may get socially outcasted , which would be a disadvantage for newbies too.

We have a time limit and a point limit setting. Either limit will end the game as it is reached.

We could add a "total deaths" limit per team as an option, that way the server host would have the option. That could be an advantage?
i.e The more experienced players will have to either keep an eye on thier "Rookies", or fly better themselves so they don't get killed to compensate?

Note: The option would have to be in flux.ini, and the host would have to set it manually.

The dynamic repair rate doesn't make any sense to me. Because you wouldn't have x amount of supplies alotted to each craft, you would just use everything you had until you ran out. First come, first served. What you could do is create a "Supplies" property that would represent the total volume of supplies carried by the CUV (and visible to the CUV pilot). Then, for every x number of hit points repaired, a percentage of the total supplies would be used up. And a single complete rearming could also use up x percent of the supplies. You could even base the rearming percentage on the type of ship if you wanted to. Then the CUV pilot would have to watch his supply volume and decide when it was time to resupply himself. Again, strategy. Like the fighter pilot, he's going to have to make the tough decision of when to get out.

Again the problem is, you can't read the ammo status so you can't check if the supply status of a CUV is "enough". (Thats why the re-load is limited to 60% in the first place)

We could time the repair, dependent on the hit point level but thats like the situation when you're docked to a station. If the CUV gets shot I'm afraid the game may lock up. [:0]

I think it's better just to have a short delay of maybe 2 seconds and then load and repair instantanously. I know it's not too realistic, but I don't have any other ideas. Do you guys?

on Bot CUVs

I think it's better if bots are spawned on call and don't run around free (dadgummed Ai always gets into trouble somehow). You won't see them spawn (unless you look for them specifically) 'cause they are a good ways away.

They'll get the order to dock with you not vice versa. Otherwise they won't hold still for you to dock! So you'll go out to meet them and look for a quiet spot first anyhow.

It's a lot easier on the server app, to deal with the bots singularily and player specificly than to have to keep track of them dynamically.







Iwar2 Multiplayer Fan Site

MajorTom, I wouldn't even pretend to have the level of Multi-Player experience you do. So I tend to defer to your better judgement on things MP. And when I don't argee with you on something, believe me, I consider it carefully before I say so. However, I do disagree with much of the above, so here's my two cents:

This is one of the weak points in the game. The players ship is recreated and therefore the weapons are full again. We can't do much about it.

Why do anything? Just penalize the dying players team. That will discourage dying as a means of repair/resupply.

Hmmm, a max number of lives; thats kinda "un-fun" imo, cause if you can't rejoin, you just sit around and wait for the game to be over

Point well taken. However. . .

Thats probably demotivational for most newbies.

I disagree. The best way to learn other than doing, is watching. Think a football player first learns how to play the game by just jumping in and yelling "What do I do!"? You've gotta watch a few games before you play. But this is a completely philosophical point (made from my point of view), and you may be more correct than I.

Decrementing points for deaths; It could make battles practically endless.

You don't have to decrement it that much! Just a small penalty to the dying players team. Again, just enough to discourage dying as a faster means of repair/resupply.

And, if you get killed too much you may get socially outcasted. . .

This is a team game remember? And part of being on a team is pulling your own weight. If you suck, I don't want you on my team until you get better. And that's just the way life is. So, go practice. I hate games where "Everyone's a winner! Yay, don't we all feel good about ourselves []!" The game can only be so fair, someone has to lose. If someone can't pull their own weight on a team, maybe they should stay at home alone and play with their dolls. Or, they could practice and get better. They don't have to be aces. As long as they really try to do well, they won't be cast out. And if they are; then they need to find a better team to play on.

The more experienced players will have to either keep an eye on thier "Rookies", or fly better themselves so they don't get killed to compensate?

Now you're starting to get my point of view, a team. Let a rookie come in as an ace's wingman. He'll get to see a master in action, gain valuable combat experience and be relatively protected.

Again the problem is, you can't read the ammo status so you can't check if the supply status of a CUV is "enough". (Thats why the re-load is limited to 60% in the first place)

So don't. Just say "CUV supply volumes below x% are not enough to resupply." You don't need to know how much the fighter needs, just whether or not the CUV has enough supplies for one more ship. The pilot should be on top of this anyway, and make sure he has enough supplies in the first place. All part of the responsibility of being a CUV pilot. [8D]

We could time the repair, dependent on the hit point level but thats like the situation when you're docked to a station. If the CUV gets shot I'm afraid the game may lock up.

This is what I was hoping for, but I was unaware of the lockup problem. Too bad.

I think it's better just to have a short delay of maybe 2 seconds and then load and repair instantanously. I know it's not too realistic, but I don't have any other ideas. Do you guys?

See above.

I think it's better if bots are spawned on call and don't run around free (dadgummed Ai always gets into trouble somehow). You won't see them spawn (unless you look for them specifically) 'cause they are a good ways away.

They'll get the order to dock with you not vice versa. Otherwise they won't hold still for you to dock! So you'll go out to meet them and look for a quiet spot first anyhow.

Sounds like you may have a good point here. Oh well.

As always, these are just my feelings. And the game isn't for me, it's for everybody. So do what you think will make the most people happy. And as long as I can occasionally chime in with my thoughts, I'll be happy too.

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Ok, The function for the CUV Bot is done, pre-tested and ready for play testing!

Works like this:

You call a bot with the Key "H" (for health), he spawns around 20 km away from you. He is set mission critical (the light blue color) and approaches you to dock (so hold still when he gets close dadgummit!)

You can only call one CUV bot at a time. If he should get killed on the way to you, you can summon another immediatly. His shields and armor protect you pretty good once he is docked. After a 4 secs you are re-armed and healed. Then the bot undocks on his own and is sent to the virtual nirivana.
The whole process: summon, run out to meet him, dock, get healed ect. takes about 20-30 secs. It only takes a few secs for him to dock once he's close (he gets force docked if he misses the first time).
The bot CUV ignores any attackers and is pretty tough, so he's not likely to get killed, but he could get disrupted on the way. Then he forgets his orders, rambles off, and gets killed after 20 sec. the moment he has forgotten his orders you can summon a new one.

You don't get points for killing a bot CUV. If you want points go shoot the guy who called him, that'll be alot easier after you've interrupted his supply chain anyhow


note for SC: if you are a bomber pilot, he only gives you one bomb!

Currently (we could change that) you can only summon a CUV bot if there are less than 4 players on the map.



Iwar2 Multiplayer Fan Site

Oops, looks like we posted at the same time MajorTom. I hope you didn't miss my above post.

btw - Hooray! MajorTom hit the big 1000!!! Congrats! [8D]

Grab a Bud Lite, Mr Pog Code Bot Fixer Upper!

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