Delayed SFoil animation on the X-Wing

Originally posted by Roi Danton

No, they don't have a disadvantage b/c of the following reasons (regarding the Original StarWars settings):
- Rebel Ships have Shields instead of the standard TIE versions (TIE Fighter, TIE Interceptor, TIE Bomber)
- Rebel Ships have more weapons regarding Rockets/Torpedos than the standard TIE versions

So, you mean The "forced" instant animation view is the price you pay for flying the most popular ship in the universe?

We have to consider that the people who are playing this mod also have played X-Wing, TIE Fighter, X-Wing vs TIE Fighter and X-Wing Alliance like us, too. So we shouldn't ignore the balancings of these games (weak TIE Fighters).

Most of those game had no multiplayer? I never played X-Wing Alliance in multiplay so I dunno, how weak Tie Fighters were there?

In a multiplayer game if a ship is too weak no one will fly it, so it would be a waste of time to make a weak ship. On the other hand, you can't have a Star wars game without Tie fighters, so they need at least a "fighting chance" against a X-Wing and half way against an A-Wing. At the moment seen from that perspective the Tie Fighter is way too weak.

I think the SFoils are THAT difference by playing rebel ships and imperial ships.

I agree! Even if we remove the "forced" instant animation view, you will still have them and you will hear them animate and they will still animate if you select an outside view.

I dunno, should leave the forced animation during the Beta tests and see if we get a substantial amount of complaints about it?
I don't think different methods on different maps (one with "k" and one with forced animation) would be a good idea?

Currently the Rebel ships (their shields) are too weak comparing to the TIEs imho.

We haven't done the balancing yet. The only thing we can say for now is: with the current loadout, the Tie/Int is a fair match for the A-Wing
The Tie Fighter only has about a 1:3 chance against an X-Wing (which is imo too low for MP).

We still don't have all the ships yet, but now that I'm done with pogging the basic functions and debugging them, we can concentrate more on balancing what we do have.

Tarcoon and I are planning to do the next balance and tuning "matches" on Friday, do you have time to join us around 20:00 hours local time?
(it would be easier, if you have a headset and Teamspeak but that isn't necessary)

The game was good



Iwar2 Multiplayer Fan Site

Originally posted by Roi Danton

I think the SFoils are THAT difference by playing rebel ships and imperial ships. Currently the Rebel ships (their shields) are too weak comparing to the TIEs imho.

They are THAT difference in the animation of the ships, but not in playing them.
While playing I think THAT differences are shields, loadout and agility.

Most players will try some different ships and play most often with the prefered one - X-Wing (cool, animation, shields, loadout) or B-Wing (cool too, animation, shields (?) and multirole loadout) - followed by CUV,TIE Interceptor, A-Wing, TIE Fighter... - however your preferences are. (and dependent on our balancing;))

If you choose an animated ship, you'll get used to run the animation after spawning - or well timed ready for combat. It will be no disadvantage for Mr.Skywalker.
I guess no player will use the tactic advantage (more speed) of closing the SFoils during a fight while being forced to watch the animation (lose speed (?),time and control)

As I said before: SFoils should be audible, but visible only on demand (F3).

Originally posted by Major Tom

My idea is to use the 'switch to outside view' approach at least for the beta and then see what people say.

I do agree. Let the pilots vote:)





There is no safe distance

Originally posted by MajorTom

In a multiplayer game if a ship is too weak no one will fly it, so it would be a waste of time to make a weak ship. On the other hand, you can't have a Star wars game without Tie fighters, so they need at least a "fighting chance" against a X-Wing and half way against an A-Wing. At the moment seen from that perspective the Tie Fighter is way too weak.

An alternative for balancing is to add an AI Wingman for the TIE Fighter pilot instead of making the TIE Fighter/Interceptor "unrealistically" strong?!?

I dunno, should leave the forced animation during the Beta tests and see if we get a substantial amount of complaints about it?

I agree to that, too.

Tarcoon and I are planning to do the next balance and tuning "matches" on Friday, do you have time to join us around 20:00 hours local time?

Yet, I don't know if I have to work at that time (besides the study and science work I'm working as Spinning Instructor in local Fitness Centers ... Thomas Sport Center ... originally founded in Munich ). So at least has Tarcoon ICQ?

---

~Buda5 Designer & Scripter
buda5.firstones.com

An alternative for balancing is to add an AI Wingman for the TIE Fighter pilot instead of making the TIE Fighter/Interceptor "unrealistically" strong?!?

What do you mean by "unrealistically strong"?
In the movies, Tie Fighters shoot down X-Wings too. In the single play games you mentioned above it's intended that the player should win against Ties.
In Multiplayer if no one flys a Tie because they are so easy to shoot down, who do you want to shoot at when you're in your X-Wing?

Adding an Ai wingman is cool idea and might be very usefull in missions or whenever there aren't many players. In "normal" multiplayer games it's has some drawbacks:

a) the wingman would use as much bandwidth as a real player
(thus reducing the maximum number of potential players)

b) The player will still get shot, because others will probably shoot him first and worry about the wingman later (at least I would do it like that [}]

c) when the player does get shot, Ai looses it's orders. It takes some additional processer time on the server app to find and re-allocate the wingman to the player. (and the wingman may be far away from the player when he respawns)

Iwar2 Multiplayer Fan Site

Originally posted by MajorTom

What do you mean by "unrealistically strong"?
In the movies, Tie Fighters shoot down X-Wings too.

Yes, but in a 5:1 ratio (besides the first final fight against Deathstar I)

Well, I don't like the idea to hit the TIE several times with my X-Wing and he's still alive. So I don't like the idea of TIE's that are nearly as strong as A-Wings. TIEs are faster than Rebel Ships, TIEs have a better maneuverability - that are the advantages of them.
If we make the TIEs like A-Wing then they are just in the game 'cause of design aspects and not b/c of a different "fly experience".
Furthermore I also think on that time we include Babylon5 ships. The most Bab5 fighter are weak, too, regarding the hull but they have superior maneuverability and acceleration like TIEs and good weapons.

Okay, I see, regarding AI Wingman that are too many drawbacks. Another possibility would be to give the TIE pilot more points instead of making the TIE stronger (though that would be not easy to decide how much more points the TIE pilot should get).

Or we include Skill Ranks into the ScoreScreen like "Rookie", "Veteran", "As", "Jedi"/"Dark Jedi". So instead of giving more points to the TIE pilot he'll faster gets a higher skill level (with less points than for example a X-Wing pilot).


... sorry for my pighead but I don't like to transform TIE Fighters to TIE Avengers

---

~Buda5 Designer & Scripter
buda5.firstones.com

Well, I don't like the idea to hit the TIE several times with my X-Wing and he's still alive. So I don't like the idea of TIE's that are nearly as strong as A-Wings. TIEs are faster than Rebel Ships, TIEs have a better maneuverability - that are the advantages of them.
If we make the TIEs like A-Wing then they are just in the game 'cause of design aspects and not b/c of a different "fly experience".

We need to differentiate here:

The Tie Interceptor is roughly equal to an A-Wing not the Tie Fighter.

Currently the Tie Fighter has about a 1:8 ratio against an A-Wing and a 1:3 ratio (maybe even 1:4) against an X-Wing.
The Tie fighter is currently the weakest ship in the whole mod.

(As a result: it can/will only be used as a bot ship, because no one will fly it in a multiplayer game)

You can't use bots as a reference for balancing. Currently, You can go out in an X-Wing and kill 4 or 5 Tie Fighter bots without even getting down to 50% health if you fly carefully.

When do you have time for a balancing test? We can arrange to meet with Tarcoon online.

Furthermore I also think on that time we include Babylon5 ships. The most Bab5 fighter are weak, too, regarding the hull but they have superior maneuverability and acceleration like TIEs and good weapons.

That is going to be a (very time consuming) question of balancing the ships correctly.

Perhaps we should also define balancing in general:
In my view:
For a MP game we can't balance the ships so that a specific faction (Rebels, Earth alliance, Imps) can win easier than another.

The real art/goal of balancing is:
The ships need to have different handling charachteristics and weapon combinations so that a given player can be most sucessfull in the ship that fits to his own "combat style" best.

Thats comparable to the original EOC game: Some players swear by the heavy corvette while others won't fly anything but the patcom.

i.e if a player feels really good and confident in a Tie Fighter and can use it's charachteristics optimally he will always win against an average pilot in an X-Wing.
The same player in an A-Wing might however loose constantly against an average Tie Interceptor pilot. (even though the A-Wing and Tie/Int are balanced at 1:1)







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