The capital of the Terran Star Empire

Wow, I've got to say; Tarcoon makes some great points. A human culture rising from the ashes of our current one would probably follow a whole other evolutionary path in technolgy. That sure makes for some great speculation. What fun!

@GTrout: Great idea about isolating which texture is being used. In fact, now that you've mentioned it, I do believe that it's the same texture on each planet.

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Originally posted by Tarcoon


I don't agree with that. The line of technical and economical evolution may differ from the "first" one. Maybe there is no need for oil or coal, because this society won't find it. Instead it develops regenerative energy sources like solar energy or uses saltwater?
They may invent some fine technology based on carbon, selen and nitrogen?

I think you are overlooking that "development" is a process that is based on itself, i.e. previous developments. You can't just "jump to light speed" from a walk.

Take the first light bulb, there you have a piece of charcoaled bamboo (there is your carbon) but to develop it you needed electrical energy. You can't get enough of that by rubbing frog legs together .
Today we use Wolfram as the light bulb element but you need large amounts of energy to create the stuff (it doesn't grow like bamboo).

Starting with the light bulb, it took 50 years and lots of energy for lot of attempts to create the first vacumed electrical tubes (or valves as the english say). Today your PC monitor is the same principle (and if it starts smelling like burnt bamboo or rubber you're in trouble)

Inventions don't just happen. There are many steps between the different stages of development. Each step requires an abundance of resources, energy and previous developments.

I think most of the inventions do base on coincidence. Often they depend on each other and from time to time there appears a genius who combines them new.

Thats right. First, the "wheel" was invented.
Most mechanical systems are only a combination of the wheel. Even the combustion engine is practically nothing more than a complex system of a bunch of "wheels" that turn each other.

Many early mechanical maschines seem primitive today, but they reduced the workload of the humans and allowed them a few more minutes a day, per generation, to make tests, discover new knowledge and thus think up new and better solutions.
Without the continual "freeing up" of the primary resource (human creativity) other developments would not have been possible. All that takes time and is based on advancement one step at a time.

I don't think it would be possible to build an engine that runs on hydrogen if you don't know the basics of internal combustion engines(because you never had any oil/Gasoline to run one with) And where would you get the hydrogen from if you didn't have the machines (combustion engines running generators in a Powerplant) that provide the energy to extract it?

Granted it probably wouldn't be necessary to do it exactly like we did with exactly the same steps but I'm pretty sure there is some kind of "natural Law" that governs the steps towards development and the avaliability of the resources needed for each step. Also, I'm pretty sure if there were any other viable sources of energy around we would have long since discovered it and use that up too.

If we did fall back into a bronze age level, I don't think there would be any hope for development. At least for 3 or 4 hundred million years, until new resources (like oil) were re-established through organic life.


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Damn, this is turning into an awsome thread!

Also, I'm pretty sure if there were any other viable sources of energy around we would have long since discovered it and use that up too.

Why would you think that? There are plenty of alternative energy sources, but the oil industry blocks all attempts at cultivating those. I think we forget the role that human greed and ambition play in the developement of technology.

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Originally posted by Second Chance

There are plenty of alternative energy sources, but the oil industry blocks all attempts at cultivating those. I think we forget the role that human greed and ambition play in the developement of technology.

If you think about it the second sentence is totally contradictory to the first

If there were a cheaper source of energy some "greedy" guy would definatly be using it to take market shares from the other greedy guys. You can't apply conspirancy theories to <s>economy</s> economics.

The only role that human greed and ambition play is to stand in it's own way and slow down the development of mankind civilization and culture.

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If there were a cheaper source of energy some "greedy" guy would definatly be using it to take market shares from the other greedy guys. You can't apply conspirancy theories to economy.

Why not? Besides, the oil industry's grip on America as it's only real supplier of energy is hardly a conspiracy theory. And I don't think the Middle East is exactly clamoring for new energy sources to be found either. It's well known that oil interests have huge amounts of control in the American government, and have had plenty of legislation passed that effectively prevent anyone from developing a competing product.

Is there no better OS in the world than Windows? Isn't Linux supposed to be the greatest thing since sliced bread? Aren't there plenty of better products than those made by Microsoft? Then why aren't they taking away market shares from Microsoft. Because Microsoft wields the kind of market power that can prevent that. Just like a mini version of the oil industry.

Anyone ever see that Simpsons episode when Homer makes a website. It starts to get really popular and Bill Gates (who can't figure out what Homer's site actually offers) decides that he can't take the chance, and tells Homer that he would like to get control of his business. Homer, thinking 'buyout', says "Woohoo!" and is thrilled, until Gates' goons start busting up his house. Homer complains and asks "I thought you were going to buy me out." to which Gates responds, "Hey, you think I got this rich giving money away."

Welcome to the Rules of Cash; He who has the cash makes the rules. That's economics.

You guys tend to be very altruistic, and that's great, but it's not very realistic.

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Oil is a perfectly good resource ot use, www.jackherer.com

If you just change the source from acient dead plants to plants that are alive 'now'...then BOOM you stop the Co2 emmisions.

Also, who said that wind energy is green? Wind enegery sucks the energy out of the atmosphere and does not replace it. if lots of countries have 10% of their entire energy supplied by wind....well thats a MASSIVE ammount of energy that is not being replaced. Hardly 'green'.

Also, the only way a civilisation could get to a tech level of using solar power or whatever....is if it goes though the tech level of oil and coal and other such things that would of been burned up for our apocolyptic genoration. Without the 'knowladge of the acients ' (i.e. us)...there would be no way in which they could USE better tech. And without the natural deposits of resources, no way to GET to higher tech. Your stuck their till the race dies from something.

Jwk...comander of =HEMP HUNGRY MONKEY=
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